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lowing awareness meditation could help with what cerys is talking about

Twi doesn't mind saying she trusts me plenty. Even more than herself. I think this part is worrying that she has trouble trusting herself to make all of these impositions reach her again. I'm not really her privileged headmate to interact with currently but I'm sure Crystal will also do her best helping Twi with her self trust and trusting that she can let go

11:39 PM

Twi was recently meditating quite often but the goal she pursued was different. She wanted to dissociate until understanding that just letting us front more would be helpful but simpler. She didn't meditate much these last few days

Leiko ↩️

Reply to: lowing awareness meditation could help with what cerys is talking about

11:41 PM

again thanks for the kind words and help ^^ Twi needs to be patient and also sure that it will happen. We will make it happen. And once she can hear my voice again I'm sure it'll flow way easier for all of us

Cerys ↩️

Reply to: I see. Perhaps what you could try is making it your two-fold role to aim compassion/patience at her,…

Tohru | 夢

again thanks for the kind words and help ^^ Twi needs to be patient and also sure that it will happen. We will make it happen. And once she can hear my voice again I'm sure it'll flow way easier for all of us

If you (and Crystal!) are able to trust that she can do it, she may be able to find confidence in trusting your judgement. It's our experience that the slightly different perspective from different headmates is sometimes an opportunity to spread that confidence around by remembering our nature as parts of a whole system.

it's hard to go again one's natural tendency to doubt and worry about failure. Takes time to heal... But I believe a new perspective can help even if Crystal is a troublesome one ^^°

Cerys ↩️

Reply to: If you (and Crystal!) are able to trust that she can do it, she may be able to find confidence in tr…

1

I agree, it definitely does take time. But it's time very well spent :3

yes. I don't think you can spend time in a worse way than these past years fleeing failures and trying to ignore the pain of the situation ^^°

11:56 PM

maybe a bit of a late thought but I was curious if the meditation you mentioned was particular in any way. Lowering Twi 's awareness has never been very successful to us so I'm curious if she's just not doing it properly for that purpose

Leiko ↩️

Reply to: lowing awareness meditation could help with what cerys is talking about

Tohru | 夢

maybe a bit of a late thought but I was curious if the meditation you mentioned was particular in any way. Lowering Twi 's awareness has never been very successful to us so I'm curious if she's just not doing it properly for that purpose

oh, Leiko means loving awareness meditation! (edited)

oh yes i meant loving! sorry

w is basically vv! ^w^

loving? That's even more mysterious to me

12:18 AM

I'm even more confused and curious about what it is about

i am bored. what are some good ways to fuck with host

Crime

Trying to overthrow your host in the tulpalections

commit tulpalection fraud by rigging the votes /j

tulpamandering

Tohru | 夢

loving? That's even more mysterious to me

I might be not right, but "loving awareness meditation" is when you focus on feelings like compassion to others. I have tried it for a week, but it wasn't effective for me (edited)

V1 (DustyAngel47)

i am bored. what are some good ways to fuck with host

I took this message literally at first ;/. (edited)

V1 (DustyAngel47)

i am bored. what are some good ways to fuck with host

charge them rent (edited)

How do you know you're not a Tulpa?

Reisen: I am a tulpa! (edited)

3:13 PM

Unless there's serious memory blocking issues going on in a system though, it's impossible not to know

I'm talking to real people

Rarely someone's sense of self and personality will change drastically (usually during developmental years if it happens at all), but that should be considered development still, not becoming "someone else". It's much healthier to think of yourself as "yourself" in these cases no matter how much you felt you've changed.

You're not getting what I'm laying down

3:15 PM

How can i

3:15 PM

A normal singular person

Deleted User

I'm talking to real people

Reisen: Well, after they're well developed enough, there's not much difference in the original person and a tulpa (edited)

Be sure I'm not a tulpa

That's actually exactly what I just answered as a guess at what you meant..

3:16 PM

Unless you mean like a tulpa of a God/higher power

But your answered assumed the person was already sure

Reisen

Unless you mean like a tulpa of a God/higher power

Maybe but jot exactly

3:16 PM

Not*

3:16 PM

Maybe a tulpa of the subconscious

Reisen: Do you mean a tulpa of a previous host who made you, but through serious memory problems you can't remember? (edited)

Etc etc

Reisen

Reisen: Do you mean a tulpa of a previous host who made you, but through serious memory problems you can't remember? (edited)

Possible

i, honestly, have no idea what you are trying to say at this point.

That happens often!

you're being too vague to give an actual answer

Hmmmm

"The subconscious" has no identity, it can't be a tulpa. The "person" in a brain is generally associations attached to/claimed by the conscious part of the brain (edited)

Reisen

"The subconscious" has no identity, it can't be a tulpa. The "person" in a brain is generally associations attached to/claimed by the conscious part of the brain (edited)

How can we know it has no identity?

By the definition of "subconscious"..

3:18 PM

There's no consciousness buried in unconsciousness

3:18 PM

Consciousness is the conscious part of the brain's job

The definitions humans place on things often have little weight when determining the qualities of said things

Subconscious processes are other parts of the brain that do other things

We are disconnected from the ongoing of subconscious thought but lack of perception isn't lack of existence

Reisen: If we knew enough about how brains worked, we could map mental processes to physical parts of the brain and dispel this idea of mysticism with ""The Subconscious"" (edited)

3:19 PM

We as in me and you :P

Maybe

3:19 PM

That's just an assumption

The information is out there to an extent necessary to understand this topic

I guess a more important question would be "does it even matter?"

Reisen: The closest thing we've (science, this time) found to "another person underneath conscious processes" is that the left and right hemispheres of the brain are a little independent in their own ways when disconnected, and can be perceived as different parts of a person demonstrating properties akin to a whole person (edited)

3:21 PM

Though even that is fanciful thinking, because literally physically, it's actually just two parts of a person, not two different people

3:21 PM

Separating them doesn't create two full people, but two (innately different in their total possibly functions) physical systems in the same body (edited)

I disagree

Reisen: ... Okay, well, I don't know what there is to disagree with. (edited)

3:22 PM

It's not like you figured any of that out yourself, that stuff was learned through scientific studies on people who've had procedures done on their brains.

Mostly your perception of objects I guess I have a hard time seeing things as wholes when they can be infinitely divided or multiplied into smaller or larger parts

Reisen

It's not like you figured any of that out yourself, that stuff was learned through scientific studies on people who've had procedures done on their brains.

Yeah but it's not relevant

Reisen: Uh, well we're talking about the subjective (but very useful and apparent/intuitive) word "person" (edited)

3:23 PM

It's fair to think of the brain as actually tons of smaller processes that only give the illusion of one unified entity

It would be fair

The same way people sometimes think about all the bacteria in their bodies that perform specialized functions with no awareness of the entire "person"

Deleted User

Be sure I'm not a tulpa

i think you are tbh

It's interesting, though at the end of the day the intuitive version of "a person" is going to be more relevant to our lives than "lots of bacteria"

Moon

i think you are tbh

I have no clue who I am, I live a very dissociative life, very possible

Reisen

It's interesting, though at the end of the day the intuitive version of "a person" is going to be more relevant to our lives than "lots of bacteria"

I don't have that connection people find my thinking strange

Reisen: Like I said, it's not healthy to think that you aren't "the person" of a body just because you've experienced dissociation or great changes in your personality, values etc. (edited)

What about the question "Does it matter?"

If you're having issues with that (and weren't purposely practicing tulpamancy/a form of intentional plurality), you should see a therapist or psychologist for help.

Intentional or forced through trauma I think both sides have some things I can learn

Deleted User

What about the question "Does it matter?"

Reisen: As I said, developed tulpas can be equivalent to the host in everything that comprises them & that they're capable of. However, susceptibility to believing you are not "the person" of the body outside of purposeful plurality practice does matter, because it's unhealthy and can very much lead to other issues in life. (edited)

Life is the issue of life

Abstracting thoughts further really doesn't do you any good in trying to maintain or establish functioning as a human being.

I stopped that a long time ago

3:28 PM

It's fine

3:28 PM

So if one was unsure of their state of existence

3:28 PM

Would finding an answer change anything

So yeah, you're in need of therapist or psychologist professional help, not tulpa help..

I'm not in "need" of any help

3:28 PM

I'm just seeking wisdom

Deleted User

Would finding an answer change anything

"Answers" only change things by you believing in them and making use of them, not to mention "true" being relative

Hmmmmmm

3:29 PM

What you say about answers is profound I like that

3:29 PM

Can I steal that?

Reisen: You can easily decide some subjective "truths" aren't important that really should've been, and decide others are, and end up functioning worse off because of it (edited)

Whatever you like

Hmm so what you're saying

3:30 PM

Is none of this matters and I can make up whatever I want, that sounds happy I'll do that!

3:30 PM

So you're certain you're a tulpa yeah?

Reisen: I'm saying a lot of people fall into traps of searching for more and more ""truths"" (random ideas that sound good for them) while ignoring what would really make them function better, happier, etc. instead searching for feelings of "deepness", but what constitutes those is totally subjective (up to interpretation & could be literally anything) and not necessarily helpful. (edited)